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It`s time to admit that I was wrong about
October 4, 2022, 4:27 pm
It`s time to admit that I was wrong about Flutter. Heard about it first time on conference several years ago, but never believed that this framework would grow to become almost as popular as Android native (and still growing). Yet, here we are.
You do understand that you are comparing framework popularity, with how much NEW questions in the stackoverflow were asked about that framework? Shouldn`t well known and mature framework get less questions, than new one ? As there are tons of information about that framework.
1) most apps need Android & iOS 2) for 90% of apps, Flutter is good enough, pure native is not required 3) few companies can afford 2 pure native apps 4) very productive 5) very well structured 6) natural for React devs 7) Dart is natural for C/JS/TS devs
Flutter was developed once smartphones were established. I was native Android dev back in 2010, most of current UI/UX patterns didn`t exist yet. But native iOS and Android are older UI frameworks now. Flutter came with a new framework designed for modern UIs.
Flutter is the future. From its simple declarative approach to its amazing out of the box widgets(you can never stop exhaust it) and now Dart is a first class citizen in the Fuschia OS the next chapter of Android, you can clearly see were Google is tking this
Could make a quip about the difference between questions and internet searches, but honestly loving this graph for showing the precise moment that everyone went WFH at start of lockdown and immediately realised they needed a better chair.
The ease of development is honestly appealing, getting up to speed is easy for anyone especially web devs lookong to het jnto mobile & not being bogged down by all the "best practices " is a bonus
"Ever notice that people rarely ask questions about chairs but they ask a lot of questions about quantum mechanics? In this Ted Talk I will argue that quantum mechanics will soon replace chairs"
2. This chart isn`t good, Android questions will always diminish because there aren`t new things to ask, someone has asked it before, so people find more answers and ask less. Flutter questions will rise, as the technology is still growing, so the chart isn`t a good metric.
1. You have to analyze things from a business perspective, with Flutter a business can spend half the money, or get 2x the productivity, because you don`t need 2 native teams (iOS and Android). That`s the main advantage, and that`s what powers Flutter`s momentum.
Flutter is definitely growing as can be seen by stars on GitHub But stackoverflow questions just means people have more issues or need answers with flutter A better metric although no idea how we could tell, is number of apps on the play store that use flutter
Like they destroyed the Android team flawlessly.Lolz. Unless I need to call native APIs via Method Channeling I have no business with Kotlin again! The only issue is, some big organisations somehow still prefer platform specific Engineers. That`s my only worry.
when I use flutter I`m busy developing app but when I do android native I`m busy doing pagination ( paging1, 2, 3). also busy doing binding ( view binding, data binding). and now busy changing language to kotlin, also busy worry about config changes ( flutter just capture all )
Since kotlin is old, most questions are already asked.. so a new one is not needed. A better metric would be the numbers impressions in the questions.
Its just plain better at doing things that most developers care about such as ease of use and flexibility in creating new UIs. It has some catching up to do in terms of speed and 3rd party plugin support but they are getting better with each new update.
Very limited metric but shows developers interest regardless. Also the interest comes not only from Android ecosystem but also from iOS deployment aspect. That`s very lucrative especially for agencies that can ship products quicker. Dart was weaker before but now better
It might just be that there more reasons to ask questions using flutter than there is in Android. We have most questions already answered for Android XMLs and stuff. Most new questions now will be about Jetpack compose.
Fundamentally this is just a very flawed basis to come to the conclusion that Flutter is as popular for products as Android native. You should have gotten tired of always looking for weak narratives to show your hate for Kotlin (your primary target here)
Thats also assuming that the rate of adoption for Compose UI by teams is faster than that of Flutter and theres no concrete data backing that, intuition suggests the opposite
Youre now tired of berating the Android and Kotlin teams Vasiliy, thats all. Thats whats driving your analysis, how soon before you start channeling it to Flutter unto who you be
I blame the general complexity of Jetpack APIs, while that complexity only "makes sense" if you`re aware of the APIs it intends to wrap, you know exactly what they do, you extrapolate how they should be used based on their source code, and then you choose to use them (or not).
Well..if don`t care about performance then flutter rocks
Actually, I am not surprised, since I currently work on Android and Flutter projects and Flutter is framework that is really easy to learn and use. Of course, multiplatform approach is very important also. Didn`t try web(don`t plan to), but Android/iOS/desktop did and it`s great.
My 2 cents as a flutter dev: - They started with a blank canvas with experience from both chrome and android as foundation - Dart`s simplicity and versatility to compile JIT + AOT - Much less legacy to retrofit
Flutter will win. Many developers do not want to write android because it has a lot of different problems. Flutter can handle many things with simple one source. I see, it will be future. Hint: Jetpack Compose and SwiftUI are similar with FlutterUI. (This is not luck.)
Weird metric. But Flutter`s success has more to do with being cross platform and not because it`s better than native. Cross platform tools are always more popular because they save money and time. I guarantee you that this metric would be the same for iOS.
This is bad metric and you`re assumptions based on it are wrong. This graph means exactly what it means - there are more questions being asked and not that it is more popular or used. You`d need to look at stats of % of apps written in given languages or online surveys.
Nothing about Flutter has "destroyed and humiliated" anybody -- we`re just one more tool in the toolbox. There are millions of people earning billions of dollars through apps built with Android Views, React native, and all manner of other frameworks.
You may always wrong
Native Android comes with many legacies and decisions made in the past that weigh on its current state. The Flutter team could learn from the mistakes already made. Maybe that`s one of the puzzles.
What about android vs ios
I think the survey from Stackoverflow is a good indicator: The growth of Dart is impressive nevertheless Im wondering how popular Dart in other usecases is. Like, is someone using it for Web Development?
First we need to define what "popularity" means I`m pretty sure it won`t be a single metric Number of apps, number of users etc are to be more valuable metrics to define popularity Still, they won`t be exhaustive
Is this an April fools joke in October? You have gained all my respect for admitting this openly, kudos and hats off to you sir.
Look flutter is twice more popular than whole ios Who even codes native ios or android, bleh. Flutter FTW You`re relying on stack overflow question percentages to make your assumptions about framework success? How about Android becoming more robust then? Or creating better documentation/codelabs and thus more clarity on subjects?
First years of my android career (2012-2015), i asked and answered many question abt android dev in stackoverflow, i still use a lot stackoverflow for finding for checkings answers, so for me your metric is definitely biased...
To be honest, Flutter is easier to learn for a beginner than Native Android (Views or Compose). I told my wife today that if I`d spent the months I`ve spent learning Kotlin-Android to learn Dart-Flutter, I woulf have become a pro.
All hail Flutter
source? These are interesting graphs
I have a simple set of theories: - Didn`t fuck about with Jetpack equivalents, worked with the standard SDK and worked to improve it with community help - Smaller team + good leadership - Community support flutter - Native folk like me who were fed up
Can we do a graph on repositories instead of stack overflow questions? Seems like the stats that matter are the ones of people actually using flutter/dart vs. Android native.
I find this metric quite problematic. Maybe people just realized that most questions about Android have already been answered somewhere so that you can more easily and faster find them via Google. This is not so likely for a younger framework like Flutter.
"that month" "questions asked" "Stackoverflow" This chart doesn`t look like a good comparison metric to claim such results
Dart is bad comparing to Java as well
Interfering! This could mean that most of the Android native questions are already answered and the development becomes stable. But Flutter may be evolving rapidly, so there are always questions to ask. Isn`t?
Wow, thats really unexpected for me. Im like living in a parallel universe where virtually no one uses flutter.
What I`m really curious to know is how is it possible that Flutter team outperformed Android team so much (both are Google). I mean, Android team had all the benefits, except for the cross-platform aspect, but Flutter team simply destroyed and humiliated them. What happened?
We will see how it unfolds. I remember that couple years ago RN was the "thing" and building native was "waste of time".
... however, seeing Flutter`s amazing momentum, I can`t rule out that it`ll indeed replace Android framework as the main approach for developing apps for Google`s mobile platform(s).
You should compare react native to flutter, not native android.
I always saw Flutter as part of Google`s defense strategy in the context of Google vs Oracle lawsuit (just like Kotlin), and, in addition, part of their defense strategy against other cross-platform solutions (mainly, FB`s React Native)...
Over the years, many prominent members of Android community openly mocked Dart as a language, usually contrasting it to Kotlin, which, according to their claims, was much better alternative. Well, they are in the minority now because Dart overtook Kotlin.